娇色导航

Welcome to 娇色导航Leadership Live.

Lee Rennick, Executive Director, 娇色导航Communities for CIO.com

I'm very excited to introduce and welcome Ed McLaughlin,

President and Chief Technology Officer, Mastercard.

Ed, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your current role. Certainly.

Hello Lee, so good to see you.

So I run technology for Mastercard and it probably the two favorite things

I have about my job is it single running day, the global network

security, the transactional systems, all the other services

we provide to the customer.

Really what what Mastercard does as a technology company.

But the other side is what we become is what we built.

So we also have all the tech modernization and the things that we're doing

to advance the state of the art.

So it's a great job where every day you make sure all the things that need to happen are happening

while you're still planning on what we build and what we're going to become.

And I love this dialog about talking about Mastercard

as being a technology company, so I'm really interested

in getting into some of the talks topics we'll be talking about today, Ed.

And I appreciate you joining us very, very much.

We've really created this series

to support the technology leader in their own tech and career journey.

So the first question and I asked this to everybody I'm interviewing,

can you please tell us a little bit about your own career path

and maybe provide some insights or tips on that road path?

Are there any lessons learned that you'd like to share?

I was talking to my daughter about this recently,

and when I left university, I went straight into programing

because I thought at the time I could have a challenging

and rewarding career and not have to talk to anybody.

So my first advice is whatever

you think's going to happen in your career is'nt pretty much what's going to happen.

But I've always been at this intersection of technology

and commerce, technology and finance, and my early career had a set of start up

organizations that were in electronic data interchange.

We had a data modeling company that we took public

at a first wave Internet payments business, and I think all of those things

came together and led me to Mastercard, where I was privileged to be part

of that management team that came in as Mastercard was getting ready for our IPO.

We originally started as a association, as a service provider

to the banks that owned us.

And in 2006 we went public as a company.

It's just been an amazing story since then.

And I think like many technology leaders, you're constantly bringing

those experiences you've had together for what happens next.

And you know, all the work we did to enable things like digital and mobile, mobile payments,

all the things we've continued to do to extend the network, it's really based

on that skills and understanding you build across your career.

Well, I appreciate you sharing that.

And you know, obviously you've worked in a sector

that's had to pivot dramatically over the last few years as well, too.

And obviously, as you mentioned, first being a service provider,

then to being a public company, I mean, that's a huge transition.

So I'm really looking forward to having some of those discussions.

And I want to segue into the next question,

which is to talk about Mastercard and the global reach of the company.

You know, I met I know many CIOs, and I've just been at two conferences, one

in the UK and one in Canada, and we've been talking

a lot about data, data sovereignty, cyber cybersecurity,

but also really creating that meaningful product for the customer around the globe.

So could you talk a little bit about your strategies as a business leader

around building that global organization for business and customer engagement?

Many things are so important.

First, you have to be where your customers are.

You have to reflect and understand your customers, and it's always a risk

that you're doing really well in one corner of the world

and you think all of those patterns apply somewhere else in the world.

So I really think of our technology and in two ways

there's certain elements of technology which are truly transcendent,

a high speed you know, incredibly reliable backbone to our network.

You know, the ways that the transactions

and messages flow because they all have to work together.

So you make certain investments to make sure those transcendent things or

those overall things are globally scalable and unbelievably good.

But then you have to recognize the only things that are meaningful for

people are how it works in their life, in their neighborhood, what's for them.

So if you can marry those globally

scaled capabilities that everyone wants and needs

and make it profoundly meaningful for merchants running their business

in that neighborhood, for consumers living their daily lives,

for financial institutions with different needs around the world,

so that that 16 digit Mastercard number

I have works exactly as well as Manhattan as a 16

digit Mastercard number that we're providing

to customer and financial inclusion, who's never been part of the financial system

as we help bring that online.

So that's really how we balance it.

So we have tech hubs around the world where we have people who are working

in the markets with the technologies in which the customers there

and we connect them or knit them together on a global basis.

I think it's also important

because, you know, proudly what we do is really important. We're regtech.

So we work in

210 different countries and regulatory domiciles.

We have 150 different currencies that we have to transact in and enable

and those requirements in and how those requirements are changing

and how that impacts the overall technology footprint we have.

It's one of the biggest topics of our time.

It must be incredible, just as you describe it.

I mean, having been at a conference in the UK

and talking to some of the CIOs and leaders there from global companies,

they were talking about how they're dealing with their data in the cloud

and you know, how they're almost having not to silo it,

but have a global plan, but then make sure their data isn't in

one country in the cloud the right way and it serves the customer in the company.

So it just must be so much more amplified in the business that you're in.

Well, there's a lot of things

we've been thinking about that, and you're exactly right.

We have regulatory obligations.

You have the tech that new technologies

that you want to be able to take advantage of

consumers' demands are shifting entirely as we're replatforming our lives

into this digital physical convergence, which is unlike anything

that we've had before.

So a couple of big parameters we put around this.

One of which is you talk about about cloud.

We had to take a view that

we're not quite sure where we're going to be allowed to run. In some countries

regulators said you had to run in equipment you fully controlled

because of national critical infrastructure. In others

we can take advantage of third party or public cloud compute.

And it's not too hard to see in the future

certain markets may say you have to run in a given cloud environment.

So when we looked at that, you take a step back

and say you want to have really well behaved applications.

So the view we took is let's have a global network fabric

where our private cloud and our public cloud are peered entities

within it and we can choose where to deploy our applications.

It's a lot harder from an engineering standpoint,

but if you get that right from the beginning, you're ready for those things

you don't know quite what's going to happen

but have to be able to anticipate now.

And the second big trend we're seeing is not only

where you have to operate and run like where you put your compute,

data and the rules around data

have become such a topic of concern and opportunity.

And we'll I'm sure we'll get to conversations around AI

and all the amazing benefits you can get from your data.

But that's the other thing is our ability to say exactly what data we're getting.

Making sure that data enters our network inside the regulatory domicile

that it belongs to and then knowing where we're processing it.

These are really hard problems and having that understanding,

so the long term goal of having a global network

with an intelligent edge that meets our customers

exactly where they're doing business and then being able to know where

within that we can put servicing, compute and persistence.

It's the foundational architectures

you put in place today, and then we'll see how that plays out over time.

But the idea of being able to control where, what

and how you're using data in a way we've never had to before,

I guess is going to be the story for the next decade.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

I mean, I'm just my head is going.

Yes, no, I'm just listening along and just thinking about the complexity

of what you have to deal with.

And we didn't plan for this quite that question.

But it must be just so valuable to for your clients,

because I'm sure as you're learning and we just had a panel last week

at a conference with the service provider and Cloud and, you know,

they're talking about how they're really working

with their clients and to help understand this.

So it sounds like you probably have that same thing in place.

And, you know, I'm just going to pop over to the next question here because

during the pandemic, of course, you know, I'm sure you had to pivot and design,

you know, different programs that you just spoke

about around cloud and really to support the changing digital economy.

I spoke to a 娇色导航here in Canada about his brand, and he said,

you know, the day after they closed their bricks and mortar

stores, their online ordering increased by 2,400% every day, every day.

And I was like, oh my gosh, how did you manage that?

So I would imagine with Mastercard that just multiplied up

with all the people in the vendors using your card.

So you talked a little bit about that, right,

already running your cloud solutions, but just how you manage that as a leader.

And then obviously you touched on as well that global financial inclusion

globally that you're working on.

So I would love you to talk a little bit about both of those things.

Let me start particularly because this is a leadership series

and the way we dealt with the pandemic, it started with, and all came down to our people.

And one of the challenges were the blessings and the burdens

of being a Mastercard is we do run national critical infrastructure.

So we had no opportunity to shut down.

We had to throw switches and pull cables and you know a letter from the Treasury Department

saying whatever you have to do to stay open, stay open.

So we had special considerations for how we had to operate through,

which really recquired a lot of,

let's say, risk and sacrifice on behalf of our staff

to come in during that time, which was such great uncertainty. And

one story I have to tell because we all talk about sense

of purpose, sense of mission, it's important for our organization.

But when you realize we've got over 3 billion accounts on our network

that people need to buy medicine to get the food for their kids

to do what they have

to do for businesses to stay in business, we need to be there for them.

So one of the things we did is we weren't sure

if we had challenges in our operations or in our control center.

So we took everyone who had worked those jobs within the last three years

and we asked them to come in and work a shift.

So if we needed them, almost like a reserve, you'd call them up and come in

and every person said yes.

So the way we were able to come through it

so well really did come down to that sense of purpose, mission and dedication,

because people understand their jobs are important.

And that's exactly what we saw. We you know,

people always talk about, you know, massive acceleration is coming forward.

We were seeing a long term shift of a couple percentage

points a year from the physical world to the digital world.

When the first quarter of full pandemic lockdowns globally happened,

we had that crossover where we had more digital transactions

than you would see in the physical world.

And that behavior has persisted.

So it was a massive acceleration of the business.

So that's where all those things, you know,

I don't think exactly had global pandemic in their plans,

but the ability to say

how much reserve capacity you had, how much of a burst can you have,

how can you expand what you do if there's unintended consequences?

All of that planning came to the fore.

And for us, when you move from a digital to a physical world,

you know, the iconic Christmas sale where the lines around the corner.

Yeah, I always say in the digital world they all hit us at once and nobody's queuing up.

It's all coming at you.

So we did a lot of work to add capacity to anticipate

and stay ahead of that demand.

But I really do say, and I always say for anything you do

as a technology strategy, it really is coming down

to a people strategy and their commitment and dedication.

And I think that's what

for many organizations I've talked to so many organizations,

that's what really shone through that very, very difficult time for all of us.

I really appreciate you sharing that.

That must have just been such an intense time, but tough to you know, so

many CIOs right now are talking about focusing on people and their people,

even when it comes to cloud and everything.

The way we manage data, the way we manage these transactions.

But you know, what a phenomenal strategy to have

and to have that kind of commitment from your people.

And just to talk about the volume of people. Yes.

That needed stuff from medicine to, you know, farm supplies

or whatever drives them in the midst of that need is truly inspiring.

And I and I really appreciate you sharing sharing that with me.

And that was that was amazing.

So I talked to a lot of CIOs around the globe and there's been a

trend in the last like little bit around the CIO

being both the technology leader and the business leader.

So I had the 娇色导航of the National Bank of Canada Julie Levesque

talk about that and say that, you know, the 娇色导航must be bilingual.

So and she was like both business and technology.

And if you don't have business, go get a business degree.

I had a 娇色导航in the UK talk about the 娇色导航being orchestrating the business.

So, you know, basically being like the conductor and, you know,

bringing business together and understanding

all those pieces like you would in an orchestra.

So I wanted to talk about that.

From the standpoint of your role, you just talked about some major, major

implementation of tech and people and bringing that together.

But I would love to learn your role

as a business leader and how you, you know, build that alongside technology.

Well, it's funny, a while ago we had a kind of

legendary CEO who loved to say how Mastercard was a technology company.

And I always say, well, Mastercard is a technology company,

and we run technology by the transitive property of equality.

Therefore, we're running the company.

Which is also how you learn formal logic only gets you so far in life.

But I think there is a real truth to that, where most companies,

I would say, used to have products that were supported by technology.

It was more of a back office.

And I think the reason why so many people are saying

actually it is a technology company is with this physical digital

convergence, with this digitization of everything.

Now our products, our services, our delivery channel to our customers is through technology.

So it becomes important in a very, very different way than it ever was before.

So not only is digital, the new medium by which I think almost all of us

do business, I think technology is the silver bullet.

That's where this applied research can massively transform and accelerate

what we're doing through data, through processing, through analytics.

So you've gone from being, you know, a cost center

to the primary asset of the organization.

Unfortunately, it doesn't mean you get to spend more, but

you do think about your assets differently than how you think about cost centers.

So I think our job, our obligation to the company is

because we're the folks who actually understand how it works.

The only way you can truly have a strategy, the only way you can map out

the way forward in this progressively digitizing world, is if you have that deep

and profound understanding both of what the business is trying to accomplish

and the assets you actually have, how the technology actually works.

And when things get off the whiteboard and somebody's got to do something, that's us.

And I see so many times that the ability to intervene or inform

from an engineering standpoint

how it can lead to the actual success of the business outcomes we're looking for.

So I love the bilingual line and I always say

it's like our role and responsibility

to be able to think left brain, right brain or on both sides of the equation.

It's really no other job in the business that does that.

Yeah, no, I think that that is so true and certainly I'm hearing it from,

from anybody I interview now that that business aspect is so connected

and then that pivot from companies now to being tech companies

and really understanding what drives the technology innovation,

the implementation, you have a lot of CIOs talking about, you know, the customer.

I'm sure it is in your

what is in your space, because we talked about this already,

the customer, the end user being the most important

and almost working from that space, coming backwards

to looking at how the technology can implement. About a

month ago, I was very honored to interview Manfred

Boudreaux-Dehmer, who's the first inaugural 娇色导航at NATO.

And, you know, he talked about being a business leader

prior to coming into this role

and then coming into this role and being a business leader,

but also having to work with 31, you know, soon

soon to be 32 countries around the world on a consensus basis.

And having learnings from

that about looking at your North Star as your guiding principle.

But understand owning business so dramatically,

so you know how to negotiate and navigate those circumstances.

I can I can hardly imagine having 31 now 32 different

constituencies under such an incredible set of external pressures.

If you, you know, and everything that NATO is dealing with.

But I think that is something we learn across our careers and something

I probably got wrong early, where for all of the technical engineering,

social engineering is an equally important part of success.

And if you understand it, but you can't explain it,

the right things aren't going to happen.

And if you can understand, you know, so often we see it that the people asking

the question don't understand the question, and the people

who are answering the question don't understand what they're asking.

And it is that translation that becomes so essential.

I really appreciate you describing that. Yeah, I agree.

Social engineering and that is a great, good big part of

I think these roles nowadays anybody's role really.

So now I want to pop over and talk about innovation again.

We've been talking a lot this year about GenAI and LLMs

and how prevalent they are in discussion, so I'd love to just have you share

your views on GenAI and other LLMs and perhaps

some of the ways you're looking at deploying

or maybe what you're seeing in market from from other other people, other CIOs,

people who are talking about it.

Well, I do have

I do feel compelled to repeat my my comment from the 娇色导航conference

that you just had that I think one of the greatest things about GenAI

and LLMs, is we got to stop talking about the metaverse, right?

We all live through these cycles where there's something

profoundly important is changing.

It captures popular imagination and it's sorting out both from

what is just the undifferentiated hype, from profoundly meaningful

and actually really, really cool capabilities

that are finally blossoming and coming to the core.

Every 娇色导航on this call has been through cycles of AI.

You know, I'll go back to when we were seeing the amazing ability

of the machine learning back propagation and TensorFlow and things of that early

earlier iterations when you could move from rules

based systems to neural network systems and things like that. So

the one thing I remind people, we're been applying AI in our network for years.

One of my favorite platforms is engineering marvel

we have, which is our decision management platform, which uses

a rules parameter and 13 different

AI engines and techniques to find fraud in the systems to fight fraud.

And this year we'll stop over $10 billion worth of fraud,

from coming through the system that we couldn't have before.

But when you talk about understanding the problem

or understanding their customers' objectives,

we probably start by saying how do we stop fraud?

What we found is the biggest benefit

we could have is by letting good transactions through.

So we started applying a lot of the powerful AI techniques.

We stopped three times more fraud, but removed six times the false positives,

which is all of us trying to do something legitimately

and having a much better experience around that.

So it's already had a massive boon to our business.

So when something like GenAI happens, every 娇色导航gets all these proposals

where people are trying to figure out what they could use it for.

I was joking maybe a decade ago.

Every proposal I got was on the blockchain.

I was like, why wouldn't a database work better?

Yeah, but this is on the blockchain, right?

I think the same thing.

So avoid that temptation to like, you know, pound screws in

with very expensive socket wrenches and ask yourself, what's the ten x factor?

What's the thing that we could never do before?

What's the hard problem we've been trying to solve.

Suddenly we might have a way to go after.

So some things I'm really enthusiastic about are things like code, assist and

developer productivity, and we're seeing some good things there.

The way you can deal with complex amounts of unstructured data

and information like for customer support or other things like that.

There's a lot of complexities to our network.

So helping people understand and navigate that, we see real, real value there.

So what we're looking at is what are the hard problems

we've always had, that these particular techniques can bring most value to

and then layer on top of that and apply for that.

And like everyone else,

we're taking things like provenance of data very, very seriously.

You know, what was the what are the models trained on?

Do we layer over with our own information?

How do you get the right foundational models around that?

So with a very clear eyed view

of how to manage the inputs and outputs of the systems, we think it's

going to have a very, very important impact on all businesses. Not as something

which replaces everything else, but is another amazing tool,

we have to solve hard problems that we couldn't have before,

and that's how I really see it fitting in.

I love that answer. Thank you so much for that. And I

and I think you know,

what I'm hearing from many tech leaders as well is what you just said,

Not as many, not as many as I would think.

But that idea that you've

already been working in this space, you've already been working around machine learning,

and now you're building on to that just to create better outcomes,

but you're doing it in a way that's controlled.

And you know, you look at the ways you can improve some of your services

and how that will work. So really fantastic.

You know another thought on that.

And I just wanted to get

because it always comes back to the people we all know right?

Tech doesn't do anything. People do it.

And one thing which is interesting to me and there's some great work coming out

of like University of Washington on this and human computer interactions

because I think we've at least I took a simpler view

early on that this was just something that augmented current jobs.

Not as much as how

profoundly it can change the job and if you think about a magazine,

right, the job of being an editor or a fact checker is a lot different

from being the author and, you know, writers notoriously make lousy editors.

So when we think about these powerful new techniques,

I think we have to think about not so much is it

augmenting current work, but how does the work change now?

I absolutely do not believe in a dystopian sort of jobless future.

I think every 娇色导航will say

my lists have lists of all the stuff I wish we could get to.

So I think it's something

that we can aid and accelerate, but we have to keep a real eye on

how people are interacting

with this tools and how it will actually change the types of jobs they're on.

Because that awesome engineer who can never do a code review

because they just rewrite and everything probably won't benefit it as much. Interesting.

I thank you for adding that on and I really thank you for joining us today.

This has been an really informative interview.

I hope we can pick up in 2024 and do another one.

Thanks so much for joining me today, Ed. Well, thank you.

It's been a real pleasure.

I certainly hope to see you soon. Take care. Thank you.

And if you want to

learn more about this interview or others, please visit us at cio.com. Thanks again.